New bombshell secret tape reveals Post Office chief Paula Vennells knew about ... trends now
Former Post Office CEO Paula Vennells was told directly about problems with the flawed Horizon IT system and was warned it would be 'dangerous' to cover it up, a new bombshell secret recording revealed last night.
During a taped meeting with independent investigators from Second Sight on July 2 2013, Ms Vennells was informed of the allegations that sub-postmaster branch accounts could be accessed remotely.
That's despite the former Post Office chief - who had her CBE formally stripped from her by the King last month - telling MPs in 2015 she was not aware of any miscarriage of justice.
More than 900 sub-postmasters were convicted of theft, fraud and false accounting between 1999 and 2015 due to faults in Fujitsu's Horizon system. For more than two decades, sub-postmasters complained the system was faulty.
The shocking injustice was thrown back into the spotlight in the ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office, based on campaigner Alan Bates's bid for justice.
Ms Vennells ran the Post Office at the height of the scandal while it routinely denied there was a problem with its Horizon IT system.
The Post Office continued to deny remote access was possible until 2019 - six years after the meeting. It later emerged Fujitsu staff could access the accounts from their Bracknell HQ.
Former Post Office CEO Paula Vennells (pictured) was told directly about problems with the flawed Horizon IT system and was warned it would be 'dangerous' to cover it up, a new bombshell secret recording revealed last night
Ms Vennells was informed of the allegations that sub-postmaster branch accounts could be accessed remotely
Two years after the meeting, Ms Vennells - who had had her CBE formally stripped from her by the King last month - told MPs in 2015 she was not aware of any miscarriage of justice
39 postmasters accused of theft by Post Office celebrate outside the High Court In London after they had their convictions overturned in 2019
In a recording obtained and aired by ITV News, Ms Vennells and several other Post Office executives were briefed by forensic accountants Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson from Second Sight, who were probing issues with Horizon.
The pair said: 'When you say they didn't have access to the Horizon system, but actually they were passing entries to live data...that is really dangerous ground.
'The last thing you want is a spot review response that says, categorically there was no access to live data from Bracknell.
'If in a week's time some bloody whistleblower pipes up to say, well, actually I was working on the second floor and we routinely did 'X'.
The pair raised concerns that the Post Office was not being transparent about possible remote access. They said: 'That sort of what might be interpreted in the press as weasel wording, um, is extremely dangerous.
'We're not just asking whether people in that basement had access to live systems, even if your answer is, they did have access to what they called the live system, but it wasn't live, which itself, you know, we're having to kind of word carefully to make it sound other than stupid...
'When you say they didn't have access to the Horizon system, but actually they were passing entries to live data. Um, but you didn't ask that, that that is really dangerous ground.'
The latest development comes after a senior MP called for police to investigate a series of covert recordings from 2013 which include Post Office executives discussing the Horizon IT scandal.
Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells (pictured) intends to hand back her CBE with immediate effect amid the fallout of the Horizon IT scandal, which led to the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters
Pressure was mounting on the Post Office to face criminal action last night after secret recordings on Wednesday and Thursday proved its bosses covered up the Horizon IT scandal
The recordings revealed that the company and Fujitsu knew their faulty computer system could alter sub-postmasters' accounts more than ten years ago, despite denying this for years
Liam Byrne, chairman of the Commons Business and Trade Committee, said the recordings were 'the first evidence that people knew there was a problem'.
The recordings, uncovered on Wednesday by Channel 4 News, contained conversations between Post Office executives and two forensic accountants on May 22 2013.
The first involved a call with IT specialist Simon Baker, in which it is admitted there is a possibility that sub-postmasters' accounts could be altered without their knowledge.
Mr Baker said: 'If somebody in Bracknell had a brainstorm and wanted to do something, they could just do it.' Fujitsu's head office is based in Bracknell, west London.
In another jaw-dropping moment, Mr Baker describes how he had informed Post Office executives Alwen Lyons and Susan Crichton that Fujitsu had admitted they could access sub-postmasters' accounts secretly.
In previous revelations, it is understood that chief Horizon architect Gareth Jenkins told investigators as early as 2012 that the IT system could be accessed remotely by Fujitsu at its HQ. However, the Post Office did not admit this until 2019.
In the second recording, the Second Sight accountants present their evidence to Post Office company secretary Ms Lyons and chief lawyer Ms Crichton – one day before then CEO Paula Vennells met with victims campaigner Lord Arbuthnot.
Labour MP Liam Byrne, (pictured) chairman of the business and trade committee, said he felt 'pure rage' as he responded to what he says is the 'first evidence from 2013 that people knew there was a problem'
The accountants can be heard strongly recommending that Ms Vennells is briefed on the failings of the system. They were later fired.
Mr Byrne, chairman of the business and trade committee, said he felt 'pure rage' as he responded to what he says is the 'first evidence from 2013 that people knew there was a problem'.
He said: 'Not only did they mislead Parliament, they were sending people to prison as late as 2015. So two years after these recordings had been made.
'This is potentially
